ray winstone 9:40 Thu Dec 17
Fracking
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The 'greenest government ever' strikes again......
MPs have voted to allow fracking under Britain’s national parks, drawing accusations that the government has sneaked the measure through parliament without a proper debate.
Ministers used a statutory instrument – a form of secondary legislation – to push through the new rules, which means legislation can pass into law without a debate in the House of Commons. MPs voted in favour by 298 to 261.
The new rules allow fracking 1,200 metres below national parks and sites of special scientific interest, as long as drilling takes place from outside protected areas. This comes despite the government previously pledging an outright ban on the controversial technique for extracting shale gas in such areas.
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Replies - Newest Posts First ( Show In Chronological Order)
Infidel
12:01 Thu Dec 24
Re: Fracking
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mashed
No, not Fairtrade- that is a racket.
Fairtrade is a cynical business that sells its badge to manufacturers for a fee (usually so many pennies per package sold).
They compete with other badges like WWF, Rain Forest Alliance, Organic etc because manufacturers usually only pay for one 'ethical logo' - so whichever one of them gets in first keeps the others out.
Fairtrade knows perfectly well that consumers think if they buy a Fairtrade product the little guy at the farm somewhere in the third world gets paid a little bit more. Indeed I would say they go a long way to promoting this myth.
In fact Fairtrade does not get involved in wages for farmworkers at all. It's not possible for them to know what the daily pay rate should be, say, in northern Bolivia on a coffee plantation. So that is left out of the contract altogether. They leave it to the farm owners to decide.
And what a contract is it. It's a serious document,it runs to over a 100 pages and has obviously been written by a London law firm, setting out the obligations of the farm and the way they will receive payments from Fairtrade.
Even I wouldn't attempt it without a lawyer and I am a native English speaker with a lot of contract experience. The idea that farms in rural areas of poor countries can even understand the contract is risible.
The contract deals with a lot of stupid environmental stuff - auditing the flora and fauna of the local area and commitments to protecting wildlife etc but none of this has anything to do with money in the pockets of farm workers,which is what consumers think it is all about.
And the name itself is insulting - 'Fairtrade' as if some farms are fair and others are unfair. The vast majority of farms in developing countries are very responsibly run and do a magnificent job of promoting local welfare. Branding them as unfair by implication because they haven't signed up to Fairtrade's little money making scheme is an appalling abuse of power.
Mashed is right that we should all be buying as much African stuff as we can find but at the same time we should all boycott anything that's labelled Fairtrade.
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mashed in maryland
11:44 Thu Dec 24
Re: Fracking
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Aid is a racket. Everyone knows this.
If you wanna help Africa, buy African products and fair trade stuff.
I agree with Infidel here.
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Infidel
11:42 Thu Dec 24
Re: Fracking
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A8
Money given out as aid is stolen, wasted and spent on weapons.
It actually harms the people who live in the recipient countries.
They have just given the Nobel Prize for Economics to a Princeton Professor who has made his name exposing the appalling consequences of the aid industry and calling on governments to stop killing people by pouring petrol on the flames with foreign aid.
So your question should really have been : should the UK have made a large payment to a program that will seriously damage the lives of the world's poorest people, enrich some of the worst robber barons on Earth and fuel civil wars in large parts of Africa?
I think the answer suggests itself.
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After8
11:47 Wed Dec 23
Re: Fracking
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Ray the borrowing figures yesterday were due to an overseas aid payment made to the world bank which was higher than expected and was made to keep us still donating 0.7% of GDP to overseas aid.
Should we have stopped the payment?
And should borrowing be higher or lower? It's a question you have failed to answer for nearly six years now.
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After8
11:41 Wed Dec 23
Re: Fracking
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Ray the borrowing figures yesterday is due to an overseas aid laymen the made in the world bank which was higher than expected and was made to keep us still donating 0.7% of gdp to overseas aid.
Should we have stopped the payment?
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Willtell
11:34 Wed Dec 23
Re: Fracking
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ray winstone 8:32 Wed Dec 23
Re: Fracking
"Willtell, talking of frauds and liars, how's that wonderful chancellor of yours doing?"
He's not "my" chancellor Ray. I'm a staunch lefty cunt like you.... and I've got 4 degrees.
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ray winstone
11:12 Wed Dec 23
Re: Fracking
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ONS cuts economic growth forecast today after massive borrowing figures released yesterday. I'd say that's not bad for starters.....
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Crassus
11:11 Wed Dec 23
Re: Fracking
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Well like Inf' I gracefully withdraw, Afm is I scientifically conclude, about as stimulating as a dose of crabs
Matey and his combination of snide degrees, repeated links, communicationfail back tracking and badger obsession has done for me
Good luck
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Johnson
10:26 Wed Dec 23
Re: Fracking
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What's he fucked up on Ray?
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ray winstone
10:15 Wed Dec 23
Re: Fracking
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Nah mate, just pleased to see him fuck up royally, I just wonder how his right wing gutter press mates will cover up his deficiencies.
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Infidel
10:12 Wed Dec 23
Re: Fracking
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Winstone
I thought you would have warmed to Osborne now that he's crossed over and become a tax and waste socialist?
The last budget was right up your street.
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ray winstone
8:32 Wed Dec 23
Re: Fracking
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Willtell, talking of frauds and liars, how's that wonderful chancellor of yours doing?
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Willtell
8:30 Wed Dec 23
Re: Fracking
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It usually takes you ages to respond to posts even when you're there AfM. Is that thinking time or just lining up your headwand?
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AfM
8:24 Wed Dec 23
Re: Fracking
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Don't worry, Surface. The Nobel prize winner would recognise your woeful attempt to misrepresent what he said and ignore you too.
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Willtell
7:59 Wed Dec 23
Re: Fracking
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Reply AfM 7:50 Wed Dec 23
Re: Fracking
"This reminds me of how Golden Oldie has to belittle Einstein to maintain his crazy worldview."
GO hates Jews we all know that but I think there is some merit in that Israel was formed on the back of a concerted displacement of the Arabs of Palestine. It was done after the 2nd WW where sympathy of world leaders allowed them to become casual in their attitude to Palestinian rights.
Israel is the aggressor - not Palestinians...
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
7:55 Wed Dec 23
Re: Fracking
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AfM 7:50 Wed Dec 23
I'm sure the Nobel Prize-winner will be devastated to learn how lowly a self-regarding dick-head with a GCSE in General Science and a mania for self-publicising regards him.
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Willtell
7:54 Wed Dec 23
Re: Fracking
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Do you accept that you have lost your verbal battle with me then AfM as you are addressing Infidel...
I think Nature is unlikely to ever be pro-fracking due to it's title alone....
Am I so unreasonable?
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Willtell
7:52 Wed Dec 23
Re: Fracking
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AfM 7:35 Wed Dec 23
Re: Fracking
"Climate deniers trying to denounce Nature. I've seen it all now."
A wanker trying to denounce sceptics.... Clearly not a scientist then AfM. Where have I denied the climate? Show me where please because the weather is gorgeous for the time of year and can only be down to climate change. (I don't live in Cumbria...)
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AfM
7:50 Wed Dec 23
Re: Fracking
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Ha, sorry Infidel.
This reminds me of how Golden Oldie has to belittle Einstein to maintain his crazy worldview.
To have to belittle Nature in order to maintain your stance on science...wow!
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AfM
7:49 Wed Dec 23
Re: Fracking
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This reminds me of how Infidel has to belittle Einstein to maintain his crazy worldview.
To have to belittle Nature in order to maintain your stance on science...wow!
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Willtell
7:45 Wed Dec 23
Re: Fracking
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To be fair Infidel we are not "losing half our industrial base" just "because climate change policies have made it uneconomic to operate in the UK."
There are many other reasons we are no longer competitive to manufacture in UK. High taxes, long holidays, high pensions, high medical, high education, high military costs etc all contribute to making our economy uncompetitive.
I saw a new Triumph motorcycle just recently announced that looks drop dead gorgeous because it is styled on the 1960/70's Triumphs that were master pieces of design. About £10,000 for a 1200cc twin cylinder modern Bonneville. Made in Coventry? Nah mate - Thailand....
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